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October 27, 2008

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mickael

love is a wonder indeed. yet, whose love is more genuine? perhaps love of juliet from the play? perhaps it's love of the sun giving life every instant? or is it love of a rock which once saved life of a human and took life of a beast?

'it's totally different' - they'd say. indeed so. and for this very reason it is the same. at least thus i heard. from a rock :)

good luck.
mickael

Barry Briggs

Hi Mickael, it's great to hear from you. Thanks for your comment!

Love is always changing, isn't it? Just like everything else in this world. The word for this experience covers so much emotion and expression - even a rock can feel it, even a beast can express it.

Thanks again,
Barry

Harry

Hello Barry,

We were talking about this area in Sociology class the other day. Our Western 'romantic love' ideal is really quite strange: its really a recipe for dissatisfaction much of the time. We look at other cultures where there are arranged, childhood marriages with no opt-out clause and we shudder at the lack of choice, freedom, the lack of 'true love' (on our own western-centric terms)... but are we really any happier with all our choice and freedom? We value highly that we choose our 'perfect match' but there are many cultural, social and learned interpersonal factors at play in who we end up with.

Some other cultures quite rightly consider our values around romantic notions of love truly bizarre.

The cycle of...

infatuation-desire-courtship-engagement...
marriage-children-relationship counselling- divorce-further counselling for all concerned

Does provide a certain amount of economic stability though I suppose!

Here's some wisdom from that old romantic Kodo Sawaki Roshi:

Everybody talks about marrying for love, but isn’t it really just marrying for sex? In the end isn’t it really only about a penis and a vagina? Why doesn’t anybody simply say that he’s fallen in love with a vagina?

Take a look sometime at the face of a dog who’s just had sex. He just stares into space with strangely empty eyes. It’s exactly the same with people – in the beginning they work themselves up into a frenzy, and in the end there’s nothing at all.

A man who understands nothing marries a woman who understands nothing, and everyone says, “Congratulations!” Now that’s something I cannot understand.

http://antaiji.dogen-zen.de/eng/kodo-sawaki-to-you.shtml

Regards,

Harry.

Uku

Good post, Barry.

I think love just is and sometimes it isn't. Like you said, it's constantly changing and as far as I feel, love is all around us. :)

Peace. And love.

Uku

Just wanted to share this story from Paulo Coelho's blog; a short story about love:

The cloud and the dune
http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2008/10/28/the-cloud-and-the-dune/#comment-57496

Gassho,
Uku

Uku

Just wanted to share a short story about love from Paulo Coelho's blog. Great story.

http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2008/10/28/the-cloud-and-the-dune/

Gassho,
Uku

Uku

Holy crap! I wrote that comment again because some error occurred in my laptop. But the first comment went through after all. You can delete the first and this comment. :)

Gassho,
Uku

Barry Briggs

Hi Harry, Thanks for your comment and especially thanks for the teaching from Kodo Sawaki Roshi. All of us probably know what it's like to be that dog staring into space. We mistake that for love and then enter the cycle you describe so well. But when teachers describe Great Love, this is not what they mean. As we practice we can find Great Love. For me, an intimate relationship creates the best opportunity for discovering whether I can walk the talk of Great Love. Mostly, I stumble.

Hi Uku, thanks for your comment. There's no doubt that romantic love is always changing. But what about Great Love - do we fall in and out of this? Thanks also for sharing Paulo Coelho's remarkable story about the cloud and dune. The cloud had Great Love and offered itself completely.

In the Zen tradition, the koan "Nan Chuan and the Cat" calls forth Great Love. What can we offer to save the cat? Can we become the cloud?

Harry

Hi Barry,

Maybe I misread this topic title as 'The Misery of love'? :-)

Great Love may be very simple... until its made complicated... by teachers etc!

So you just buy a kesa in your club? You might just have a convertee on your hands, bud.

Regards to you and your Good Lady,

Harry.

Barry Briggs

Hi Harry - "misery of love" - OH YES!

I don't know if Great Love is simple or complicated. Truly, I don't know.

The Korean Zen tradition is very matter-of-fact about most things. You need a kesa? buy one! When hungry, just eat - don't mess with lots of chants 'n' stuff.

How goes the sewing?

Barry

Harry

Hi Barry,

Sewing is on hiatus because I'm not sure I really need one. Maybe I'll just buy one and eat instead!

Regards,

Harry.

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